I and a friend one time debated Free Will verses Predestination, which expanded into may other areas rapidly. I'm not sure who started the thread but it ended up as it went along that mainly the two of us debated. That is important to keep in mind, we debated. It was what I considered one of the most learning experiences I have had yet to date, and one of the most enjoyable one too. I think he felt the same way. Along this path though on the thread many other questions arose and it forced me to think, an accomplishment all of it's own. :) Bear in mind, this is just my understanding and I always welcome others views. I'll list some of the questions we addressed.
How can there be Free Will and yet God know everything?
God gave Free Will not only to mankind but to the Angels as well. Many would readily agree with the mankind one yet the Angels? The proof of that is the fall of Lucifer and it was once again proven in Genesis 6 with the Watchers. One has to then though ask why would God do that. Which spouse would you want? Which friend would you want? Which pet would you want? Unless you are Jeffery Dahmer, you would want and enjoy the company of the one that wanted to be there because they chose you too.
If you have friends for no other reason than they want to be with you, you have a true friend. If you have friends because of your power, money, fame, or any other reason under the heavens... they are never true. Usually they will stay with you as long as it benefits just them and times are good. People under oppression are usually miserable. As employees they are unproductive. As servants they are unpredictable. Scared they are undependable. As friends they are fair weather. As in love, they are incapable of true love. In secret they contrive.
People who are there because they want to be and have real love for you, now there are people that will stick with you through thick and thick. They are happy and a joy to be around. They are there because they chose to be. They have the ability to love without boundaries. They are always willing to serve the others needs and wants with no other purpose than to please. They are at peace inside and with others. Selfless people who take delight in others delight.
So, I'm not saying I'm 100% right, could this be the reason why God created free will? He doesn't want slaves or gold diggers. He doesn't want people to come running for what He can give materially or have them come scared. He wants them to come because they want to be there and they love Him, no matter what the cost. Of course this mast to be a mutual thing, and it is. He sent His on Son to be ridiculed, beaten, and eventually killed. Not to mention other blessings.
There are of course rules, ones that are pretty much universally accepted but all and no faiths. Then there are some rules that are not so accepted. Compared to man's rules and laws there are very, very few, but they all pertain to everybody and not just the ones that want to do them. His laws and rules are spread across the board and no lawyer or court, or judge can rule on them, nor can they they swayed or perverted. You either do or don't. Guilty or innocent. There is a level playing field for saint and sinner.
Just as the first man and woman were created for a purpose and reason, so are all of us. We have Free Will though to refuse what we were created for. We're all given gifts that are special but He leaves it up to us to decide if we use them. So how then my friend asked, does God know everything given that He gave free will for a person to accept or reject. If you change your mind how does he know? I look at it like this.
Life is a series of crossroads with one joining the other. You have only four possible outcomes at each on. Remain, straight, right, or left. Those that remain are often pushed one way or the other, so remaining simply leaves you at the disposal of others who also use the same highway. It is impossible to remain at that stop for long. He knows where each crossroads lead and where the next crossroads lead too. He allows you to chose each time with really only three possible outcomes. Some of the ones that remain there may be pushed by others headed the right way, some will not. Or, as my great grandmother Annie use to say, "There are many roads that lead out, but few that lead in and once you take the wrong path, it's hard to find your way back."
Unfortunately there are many obstacles in the way. While I used the term road, path is probably more the accurate term as path is mentioned quiet frequently in the Bible. I used road since most can easily relate to that as opposed to paths. If we take a nature walk through the forest we can easily become distracted by many things. Much the same as a drive down the road, but all are a series of decisions. God knows where the paths or roads lead and the outcome of each.
He lets you and me do the driving but provides signs along the way, if we just notice them, for they are often subtle signs easily missed in this hurried world. Missing a sign only makes on human. But all roads lead somewhere and have to end sometime, so He wants you to know the outcome to where the final destination is and what to expect. He wants you to end up at His house, but He wants you to end up there because you want to be. What is really great is if you can have someone make it that stalled or taken the wrong turn at the last crossroads. Not pushing but rather leading by example. Being bathed in one's own righteousness isn't leading.
So everybody has a purpose along the way. Some bigger, some smaller, but purposeful all the same. Nobody is a mistake, even when the wrong path is taken. That just means they made a mistake. Perhaps they didn't see their purpose. Perhaps they didn't accept that they count. That they are loved. That they were created different for a reason. Some will see their purpose, whatever that may be, and some will not. Some will do what God intended, and some will not. He leaves that decision to each person, but He still loves them all the same. For what father doesn't love his love his child, if the father is a good father? How much more than is God that our ability, knowing the He is love.
But that is what I think. You have to think for yourself just as I do myself.
How can there be Free Will and yet God know everything?
God gave Free Will not only to mankind but to the Angels as well. Many would readily agree with the mankind one yet the Angels? The proof of that is the fall of Lucifer and it was once again proven in Genesis 6 with the Watchers. One has to then though ask why would God do that. Which spouse would you want? Which friend would you want? Which pet would you want? Unless you are Jeffery Dahmer, you would want and enjoy the company of the one that wanted to be there because they chose you too.
If you have friends for no other reason than they want to be with you, you have a true friend. If you have friends because of your power, money, fame, or any other reason under the heavens... they are never true. Usually they will stay with you as long as it benefits just them and times are good. People under oppression are usually miserable. As employees they are unproductive. As servants they are unpredictable. Scared they are undependable. As friends they are fair weather. As in love, they are incapable of true love. In secret they contrive.
People who are there because they want to be and have real love for you, now there are people that will stick with you through thick and thick. They are happy and a joy to be around. They are there because they chose to be. They have the ability to love without boundaries. They are always willing to serve the others needs and wants with no other purpose than to please. They are at peace inside and with others. Selfless people who take delight in others delight.
So, I'm not saying I'm 100% right, could this be the reason why God created free will? He doesn't want slaves or gold diggers. He doesn't want people to come running for what He can give materially or have them come scared. He wants them to come because they want to be there and they love Him, no matter what the cost. Of course this mast to be a mutual thing, and it is. He sent His on Son to be ridiculed, beaten, and eventually killed. Not to mention other blessings.
There are of course rules, ones that are pretty much universally accepted but all and no faiths. Then there are some rules that are not so accepted. Compared to man's rules and laws there are very, very few, but they all pertain to everybody and not just the ones that want to do them. His laws and rules are spread across the board and no lawyer or court, or judge can rule on them, nor can they they swayed or perverted. You either do or don't. Guilty or innocent. There is a level playing field for saint and sinner.
Just as the first man and woman were created for a purpose and reason, so are all of us. We have Free Will though to refuse what we were created for. We're all given gifts that are special but He leaves it up to us to decide if we use them. So how then my friend asked, does God know everything given that He gave free will for a person to accept or reject. If you change your mind how does he know? I look at it like this.
Life is a series of crossroads with one joining the other. You have only four possible outcomes at each on. Remain, straight, right, or left. Those that remain are often pushed one way or the other, so remaining simply leaves you at the disposal of others who also use the same highway. It is impossible to remain at that stop for long. He knows where each crossroads lead and where the next crossroads lead too. He allows you to chose each time with really only three possible outcomes. Some of the ones that remain there may be pushed by others headed the right way, some will not. Or, as my great grandmother Annie use to say, "There are many roads that lead out, but few that lead in and once you take the wrong path, it's hard to find your way back."
Unfortunately there are many obstacles in the way. While I used the term road, path is probably more the accurate term as path is mentioned quiet frequently in the Bible. I used road since most can easily relate to that as opposed to paths. If we take a nature walk through the forest we can easily become distracted by many things. Much the same as a drive down the road, but all are a series of decisions. God knows where the paths or roads lead and the outcome of each.
He lets you and me do the driving but provides signs along the way, if we just notice them, for they are often subtle signs easily missed in this hurried world. Missing a sign only makes on human. But all roads lead somewhere and have to end sometime, so He wants you to know the outcome to where the final destination is and what to expect. He wants you to end up at His house, but He wants you to end up there because you want to be. What is really great is if you can have someone make it that stalled or taken the wrong turn at the last crossroads. Not pushing but rather leading by example. Being bathed in one's own righteousness isn't leading.
So everybody has a purpose along the way. Some bigger, some smaller, but purposeful all the same. Nobody is a mistake, even when the wrong path is taken. That just means they made a mistake. Perhaps they didn't see their purpose. Perhaps they didn't accept that they count. That they are loved. That they were created different for a reason. Some will see their purpose, whatever that may be, and some will not. Some will do what God intended, and some will not. He leaves that decision to each person, but He still loves them all the same. For what father doesn't love his love his child, if the father is a good father? How much more than is God that our ability, knowing the He is love.
But that is what I think. You have to think for yourself just as I do myself.
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